[Music]
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Gayathri
when I started in politics trade unions
were a power in the land their leaders
were household names much better known
than almost all MPs the moderate ones
got a knighthood Sir Tom Jackson of the
handlebar moustache for example and even
left-wing giants like Hugh Scanlon
frequently ended up in the House of
Lords Union power was busted by Margot
of course with a little help from her
friends who could perhaps have stopped
her but didn't have the courage and so a
long dark night of depressed workers
rights was to follow unions had power in
the labour party too and could still
have had it if they hadn't given it away
to the blandishments of Tony Blair the
Blair I'd start taking power from the
unions would ensure they were in power
in labor in perpetuity look how that
turned out
our first guest personifies today's
union leaders politically savvy firmly
on the left and running a professional
organization which delivers for its
members it would have to deliver because
he's the man who represents your postage
he's Dave Ward general secretary of the
union of Communication Workers gave
welcome to Sputnik the Royal Mail is
still called the Royal Mail but Her
Majesty no longer owns a house
privatisation working out well it's not
going very well we've just served notice
for industrial action will be balloting
over a hundred thousand postal workers
next week for industrial action some
very big issues that we've got to deal
with some very big differences between
us and the company I think workers at
the moment frontline workers in the post
are under more pressure than I can ever
remember to work harder faster and
cheaper and this is to achieve
completely unrealistic efficiency
targets which have nothing whatsoever to
do with
growing the business or innovating
services for customers and everything to
do with making sure that hedge funds and
the private shareholders get their
dividend I mean since Romel was
privatized over 800 million nearly I
think it is coming up to that has gone
out at a company being sucked out a
company which could have been used for
investment in services and gone into the
hands of 800 millions in three and a
half years and the interview factor and
that it was under sold by servants gable
who is the shareholders cashed in up in
a substantial profit within days didn't
we still paying the price for that now
and the public is still paying the price
for that now we've got some big issues
the company are attacking our members
pensions I mean this is the irony of
this is at a time when the company is
slashing our members pension
entitlements refuses to give us a pay
award this year pay rise is focused
totally on increasing a dividend to its
shareholders
well the company was under sold 800
million pounds has been sucked out of
the company in dividends to private
owners and what's the service like to
the public well I think what's happening
with the service is it's coming under
pressure if you went to our local
offices this is the pressure that I'm
talking about frontline workers are
under it's chaotic in a lot of our local
offices now every day I don't think
people really know what they're going to
do from the start they come in the net
result of that sort of chaotic
management planning chasing efficiency
all the time is that deliveries just
keep getting longer and later the
company would say that's about
automation they would say the you know
it's about making sure they get a return
on the investment of automation but it
seems to us amazing that automation
comes in and the mail actually gets
there laters was not earlier and so you
know we've got some big issues we what
we want to campaign we have been
campaigning for four pillars of security
which we want to share in the benefits
of automation so we want our workers to
get short
in hours not longer we obviously want to
get a decent pay rise but we want to
change the strategy of the company as
well we want a new deal on pensions for
all our members we're not going to
accept their attack on their pension
entitlements but we want to change the
direction it's important that wrong now
continues to be a company that serves
the public in this country it's also
important that it innovates its services
and we believe is entirely possible
despite the changing world of
communications which we acknowledge for
a company like Royal Mail to continue to
be successful and but what it's got to
do it's got to put itself at the heart
of local communities it's got to put
itself at the heart of Internet
transactions and it's got to defend and
expand on the universal service now what
about the McDonald's strike shocking
wages and working conditions
I think there's never been a time that I
can remember in my working life where
workers everywhere are under as much
pressure as what they are now where jobs
you know people used to talk about
employment now we need to talk about the
quality of jobs and you know there's no
other way of saying it but there's a lot
of jobs around yeah and people can't
make a living and start a life with the
levels of pay and the conditions and the
McDonald's story is really inspiring I
mean for all workers for a company like
McDonald's for the workers actually my
grendel was just started working there
and this is a great moment for the trade
union movement the workers in places
like McDonald's are now being organized
and they're saying they're havin any
enough I mean we've got the tea you see
Congress next week and our union is
putting forward some really strong
propositions I believe personally that
such is the nature of their balance of
forces against us at a moment in the
world of work if you adding to that
what's coming down the line with
digitalization and now that's going to
change the world at work this is the
moment for a call to action for workers
across the piece and the way to do that
is to set out what we believe is a new
deal for workers that all workers in
whatever industry private or public
sector can get behind and change the
contractual status of many employees in
this country
fight for higher pay decent pensions and
this is a moment where I think there's
an onus on all unions to look at common
bargaining agendas to tackle these
companies who push forward in secure
employment it's an opportunity to set
out what constitutes a new deal for all
workers in Britain and it's got to be
supported by a major campaign let's get
a million workers out on the street by
about March next year campaigning for a
new deal communicate what that looks
like get the labor movement behind it I
think labour already made a great start
and the deal is quite a good day for it
by the way figures out this week show
that there has never been a sustained
fall in living standards and like this
for 150 years can you believe that we're
talking about what eighteen seventy
being the only comparable period of a
sustained fall in living standards now
you touched on labor up there jeremy
corbyn's supporting you in your ballot
he's supporting the McDonald's workers
and their strike so long time since
we've had a labor leader supporting
industrial action it's a great time for
the movement to come together and
society to think about being radical and
changed the world that we living on all
levels and you know Jeremy Corbyn the
seam around him John McDonald
and all of that team deserve huge credit
for being brave enough to put forward a
transformative manifesto for talking
about and delivering on building a mass
movement and that's why we supported
Jeremy I think we were one of the first
unions out of traps and because we'd had
enough of what New Labour stood for you
know it was quite clear to us for many
years that New Labour had walked away
from ordinary working people and Jeremy
Corbyn was a catalyst for changing the
Labour Party and that's why we supported
him he's now become a catalyst for
change in the country and and I do think
that there was a real opportunity one of
the things I would say about the trade
union movement is that we spent years as
union leaders and my predecessors and
other union leaders predecessors
telling the Labour Party what it needed
to do to get back to representing
working people i think the union
movement now has to follow the lead of
calling and we have to set out what
we're going to do to get back to
representing working people we need to
rejuvenate our movement we need a call
to action I'm not talking about you put
your head down and you run at them there
has to be a deliverable plan that all
unions can get behind and work but I
believe this is the moment young people
recognize that and I think one of the
great things about the general election
with labels manifesto is that even some
of the older people who perhaps had
turned away from labour I think they
were listening again of course if the
blare rights within the Labour Party
hadn't spent the best part of two years
trying to destroy Jeremy Corbyn we'd
probably have a Labour government today
would be labelled negotiating brexit who
we labor
presiding over these employment issues
that you speak of he really has turned
out to be a bit of a Superman and the
people like you that loyally stood by
them when enormous pressures to distance
yourself to ditch him were there
you must feel and you're entitled to
feel absolutely vindicated by a Labour
vote that went up by four and a half
million on the last guy I think feeling
vindicated is part of it but there's
work to do and I just get this sense
that there's a platform that called
winners bill that we've got to get
behind like no overtime and yeah it was
if you go back to those periods there
was some difficult moments even with our
own members you know we have to be
honest about that there was a lot of our
members who were probably struggling
listening to some of the media stories
listening to some of the completely
outrageous attacks on coal beam and the
media you know carries weight as we know
but to come out at the end of that with
that manifesto you know where you talk
about taking back control when you start
talking about taking back real control
of your railways of your energy
of you know putting the NHS back
together again a national education
program this is a fantastic platform
council housing being built new
employment rights and all I'm saying is
is you know we we will stick with Jeremy
Corbyn and that agenda but I think it's
also time for the trade union movement
to now say to itself what we going to do
for workers in this country how we're
going to tackle in secure employment and
we're putting that plan forward at the
TU C next week well the best of luck in
your industrial future and the labor
conference as you say one final thing we
also represent telecommunication workers
and financial services workers and they
are coming under increasing pressure as
well in their pensions so watch this
space they've watt thanks for joining us
on this but Nick coming up next staying
with the Royal Mail but looking at
mental health don't miss it
welcome back to Sputnik anyone who's
ever dealt with the public as I have on
a daily basis for decades is well aware
of the increasing prevalence of people
with mental health problems of course
these are the obvious cases green-ink
letters people suffering from paranoia
people who can harm themselves and
others but millions of people have or
will suffer from mental illness in their
lives and they won't be regarded as if
they were recovering from any other kind
of illness either the stigma is absolute
and forever joining us to discuss this
growing problem is dr. Sean Davis who
heads the safety health and well-being
section of Royal Mail dr. Sean thanks
very much for joining us sketch if you
will the scale of mental illness in
Britain today so we know through the
research into the various charities and
organization that we work with that one
in four will be affected by a mental
health condition so you're quite right
when you say that it will touch many
other than 15 million people yeah yeah
and if you think about how that can it
can affect each even if you're not
directly effect
by it the fight could be a loved one a
family member I would argue that each
and every one of it is going to be
touched at some point to some degree by
mental health most it's where that must
be true if if it's 15 million plus their
families that's more or less the whole
population of Britain this of course is
a range of problems from depression not
wanting to go out to being out and being
extremely dangerous have I got that
right are these the parameters so I
think it is what we call multifactorial
so there's various degrees is a scale
there's various aspects of a and and the
it does range it quite rightly said from
from anxiety and depression through to
serious cases that require
hospitalization long term treatment I
think you're quite right to point out
that it is a scale and the other thing
to remember is that people would move up
and down that scale depending on
particular conditions so you don't fall
into a category you're not a an a-list
sufferer of mental health condition
b-list suffer it depends on lots of
different things can affect that if I
think to my own personal experience I
needed some mental health support
following a bereavement my my
brother-in-law was was suddenly taken
from was really young and I needed a
level of support and that again is part
of a scale some people need it some
people dip in and out of it some people
are on long-term ongoing treatment now
you handle this for Royal mil which must
have a huge number of employees how
prevalent is in the workplace I mean
people reporting sick for mental health
problems so in one in six people in the
workplace are affected with with mental
health conditions and mental health
issues and within Royal Mail we've
tended to focus on what we can do at the
preventative end so obviously we have an
occupational health program where we
will support our our employees should we
need to in the event of them they've
been taken on well but my strategy and
that and the strategy of the
organization is to be at the more
protective and preventative end so we
have a program that we call feeling
first-class and first-class support and
that is our Employee Assistance Program
and we try to create a culture where we
will encourage people to talk about
their own mental health how they're
feeling and to act as coaches support
ambassadors to other people so Romeo
seems like it's at least in this respect
a good employer but that will not be
true across the board will it there'll
be lots of places where people work
where signs are not spotted and where
support isn't given yeah and I think
Rommel I'm really personally really
proud to work for an organization such
as Romell that is committed to the
health well-being and mental health of
our people and I know that I speak on
behalf of the entire senior leadership
team and lots of our people when I say
that they're fully committed to mental
health but unfortunately there are
organizations that are not and that's
the various reasons some people don't
know what to do so they tend to kind of
ignore it and hope these things go away
other people are still just really early
on in terms of discovering themselves
what they could do to protect and
prevent on mental health one thing that
I personally share with people and they
ask me about it is to just do something
anything that Inc creates a culture
where people will talk about mental
health or we'll share their own stories
it's a positive step so obviously Romell
large organization lots of support we
can do lots of things we can we can
influence the fabric of the UK as well
because of the size of us but that
doesn't mean the smaller organizations
the need to allocate the budgetary piece
is an aspect but how much budget do you
need to have a conversation how much
budget do you need to say to somebody
how are you today so there's various
things that people can do and I think
that what you can do is flex and my
personal view is that it's an aggregate
effect we all do a little bit of
something it'll move the debate on you
think about how people didn't talk about
canceling years ago and now people talk
about countering treatments we should be
trying to do the same thing for mental
health well it starts with the fact that
mental health is the Cinderella of the
health system isn't it it doesn't get
the share of budget in the overall
health allocation at least that's what
campaigner say and then there's the
issue of stigma I mean there's no
getting away from this if if you applied
to me for a job and you'd previously
I don't know even an extreme case had a
leg amputated or or had suffered from
cancer yeah I would know I think and I'm
quite an enlightened guy view that in
the same way as if you said to me I want
a job with you but I've previously been
quite seriously mentally ill how do you
deal with that it's about educating
education educating organization so
there is a direct link between good work
and good quality work and policies of
mental health so we would far from right
people offer for a mental health
condition we would actively we would
support them out at work if they which
if they didn't if they went off work
sake we would encourage them back to
work and we certainly wouldn't
discriminate against people coming to
work and and and actually work is really
good for your mental health really
really good and actually that the
relationship piece and working with your
colleagues and having a sense of purpose
when else can be hugely hugely positive
on the recovery piece what else could
the government do you think you talk
about you know the responsibility of the
employers what about the government
itself so the government in my dealings
with the government they've been
supportive of mental health and mental
health agenda as always and you quite
rightly said there's financial
challenges budgetary toilet challenges I
think what they could do is is may
create a movement that pulls
organizations together so the
organizations are sharing best practices
so there's blue awesome work done quite
recently in the last couple of years
where they pulled together best
practices from organizations and shared
that I think more work in that area
could be really beneficial to to help
the smaller organisations or those
organizations are just starting out on
the journey going back to my previous
metaphor or analogy I don't know which I
was if you came in for your interview
with me and you had had your leg
amputated it would be kind of obvious
yeah but mental health isn't as obvious
is it that's the thing because of stigma
I mean what signs do you look for let's
see in your work were in the Royal Mail
so the first thing is be quite right and
obvious but what you can do is create a
culture where people will talk about -
so you try and encourage people what we
need to do is stop people thinking I
can't talk about it I'll be out on my
ear
I'll get the sack or I wouldn't get that
job then what we need to do is create
people who've had that experience to
share their stories I can think of a
number of people within Royal Mail who
have come forward and said to me can I
tell you my story publicly across the
organization and people who've had
short-term absence longer term absence
by Paul etc let me tell you what
happened to me let me tell you what I
didn't let me tell you how I got back to
work and handled it so it's fine people
like me talking about mental health and
what organisations can do but it's
really powerful when when colleagues and
and and co-workers talk about it no
royal Mills obviously the more
enlightened end again I stress on this
issue and with the workers on wages and
conditions and so on but I mean how many
what's the investment by Royal Mail on
health safety well-being how many people
have you got for example under you so in
my direct team we've got 90 people in my
team 90 yeah but but across the
organisation we've got a number of area
safety representatives the workplace
safety representatives I've got a
fantastic relationship with our union
the Communication Workers Union and
unite and we really pulled together on
the safety of and well-being a gender
and I'm I feel really lucky to be
working with those people so we've got
an extended population then have about
120 so you look you north of 200 so but
that is that's a committed team but also
line managers have got responsibility
for safety health and well-being and
we've got a dedicated occupational
health function as well that that we
work alongside so there is a big
commitment to the safety health and
well-being of our people
what could other employers watching this
what could they do because I certainly
know of many employers who haven't given
a moment's thought to this for one
reason or another there's a couple of
things that could do I think the first
thing is just do something so lots of
organizations in my experience want to
create a strategy and a plan and they
want to put it through the various
approval processes and they want to
launch it with big fanfare and of course
there's a governance requirement you've
got to do things properly but there are
other things you can do in tandem just
do a little bit of something just try
and create a culture where people will
have that water cooler commerce
how are you not to take time to listen
that's one thing that could do and the
other things it can go to there's so
many resources out there that they can
look at there's various charities as
organizations like mind there's other
organizations like business in the
community there are a variety of
charities and and and trusts out there
that will gladly share what they've
learned what they're not in two
organizations and help them develop a
strategy so he'd be two things me food
for me it would be just do something and
kind of tap into the existing resources
that we've got available there is
obviously a number of people who fall
out of the system and fall onto benefits
and and not particularly hard times I
think our role as a responsible employer
is to try and avoid that and help
through the education of our our
managers and people to stop that from
from happening and to to help identify
early on when we see these slippage --es
and to put them into the pastoral and
clinical care that they need because for
every move away from the organisation it
gets more difficult to pull them back so
what we want to do is to to support them
and to keep them at work as I said
before good work and good quality work
is good for the mental health and good
for the organization it's a win-win and
in the atomized world of work that we
have now there aren't that many
employers of your scale and size where
these things are even practicable so I'm
glad we've got at least some grip on it
today dr. Sean Davis thank you thanks
for joining us on this but Nick
and now it's your turn to tell us what
you think through the portals of social
media what's rattling Gayatri
so we see Jeremy Corbyn supporting the
workers Adam I don't strike and
supporting they've Ward's unions
industrial actions when was the last
time a Labour leader did something of
the kind Phil Berger says you mean
previous labor leaders because JC has
supported workers in struggle and trade
unions all his life JC for Prime
Minister and Steven Robertson says JC is
talking nuggets he would need a map to
be redirected to what used to be the
heartland of labour in the North East of
England and Scotland well let me tell
you that I joined the Lea shouldn't tell
you this is my wife because you think
I'm 45 I joined the Labour Party in 1967
and I don't know of any Labour leader
from 1967 to 2017 who supported an
industrial strike there you go and as
for the rest some of Corbin's biggest
crowds and the biggest swings to labour
we're in the north and in the labour
heartlands all these anti corbin mpz
doubled their majorities in most cases
it's graceful I mean amazing all the
tweets today which alas means that's the
end of the show but you can stay in
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Sputnik goodbye from me Gayatri and for
me George Galloway it's been marvelous